what do you guys think?
a genuinely new social formation or just the same old same old?
does it make sense to talk about it as a religion? it seems to fulfill many of the same functions as a religion.
what about international networks? the formation of community?
what about identity?
what about the material of modern life? bringing all that material out onto a blank slate and reorganizing it. amalgamating it. destroying it. contesting meanings and categories.
what is up with this business?
do you think real fieldwork could be done in this context?
a genuinely new social formation or just the same old same old?
does it make sense to talk about it as a religion? it seems to fulfill many of the same functions as a religion.
what about international networks? the formation of community?
what about identity?
what about the material of modern life? bringing all that material out onto a blank slate and reorganizing it. amalgamating it. destroying it. contesting meanings and categories.
what is up with this business?
do you think real fieldwork could be done in this context?
posted by:
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SF Bay Area
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Re: burning man
09/21Two initial theoretical launching points, one new one old: Turner's liminality and communitas, and Hakim Bey's "Temporary Autonomous Zone." As for the latter, while not strictly anthropological, it is being increasingly used; I myself have used it in papers to discuss raves and electronic dance music culture. See also, for instance, David Muggleton's edited work _The Post-Subcultures_ reader which not only uses the TAZ extensively but also Maffesoli's notion of, yes, the "tribe."
I do think fieldwork could be done on at BM. Good ole participant observation, although the observer/observed boundaries would be very permeable...not that Clifford, Marcus, Fischer, and others haven't thoroughly deconstructed that anyway.
I'll stop there. Sorry for spouting theory; my PhD exams are still knockin' around my head...
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Re: burning man
09/21but that's what i asked for?
it does definately seem like a liminal space in the sense of normal rules and identities being suspended. but what change would take place afterwards? where would one go on to?
i haven't heard of the "temporary autonomous zone" idea but it sounds interesting. i'll definately look it up. and the post-subcultures reader.
though the autonomy of burning man is definately in question...
hehe. but can one really do fieldwork effectively in only a week? i would think online communities like tribe and regional networks would have to be included. -
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Re: burning man
09/21I wrote my MA thesis on BM's gift economy and its role in the creation of a community. While I'm really feeling too lazy to get into what I wrote, I can tell you that I used online surveys, tribe.net, JRS newsletters, informal interviews, and publications (especially websites), in addition to a couple year's worth of "fieldwork" (for which I got backdated approval through the U of Chicago's IRB).
tribe.net and regional networks were also pieces of evidence of lasting inclinations towards an emerging community. I didn't even begin to touch on issues of identity! woo, what a topic (and a monstrosity to write about)!
yes on the liminal space aspect!
no on the religion! (just my opinion) - why? because burning man does not provide (in my opinion) an explanation for the "uncontrollable" and "unexplainable" in everyday life. My grasp of what religion is: a venue for "taking care of" the things that a person cannot control and "explaining" things that cannot be comprehended.
any thoughts? does burning man do this for anyone? it seems more like it fulfills the role of any other celebratory liminal space/time WITHIN a religion or "culture" than actually being one all on its own. (for example: mardi gras is not a religion, it's a liminal space within catholicism) -
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Re: burning man
09/22i don't think that it's a "religion" per se. what's interesting to me is how it appropriates the form of a religion in particular cases for particular purposes. like the burning of the man. or the experience of the flower descending on the people gathered below. and how the use of psychadelics to create "religious" experience is so central to those events. especially when you think about how important psychadelics are to shamanic religious experiences.
it may not provide an explanation for the universe. but might it not provide a model for relating to the universe regardless? it certainly "takes care of things" in that sense. in terms of how one interacts with ones fellow beings and what values one holds in terms of creating experiences? those are both part of what religion does for people, the explanation part is just a back story.
it does seem to be a pretty coherant cultural package that has many traits and those traits are passed on to people through attending the event. they may have shared many of those traits in the first place but perhaps it solidifies them in peoples minds and adds additional convictions that they might not have held. that's definately something that a relgion does. a vehicle for cultural continuity.
the idea of a liminal space/time within a religion but not necessarily of the religion is interesting to me. but there wouldn't be a religion that burning man could be in the context of that would explain the "religious" aspects of burning man.
what did you get your masters in? -
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Re: burning man
09/22social sciences - focused in cult. anthro. It was a one year program, so somewhat limited in scope. I found it easier than my senior year of college. -
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Re: burning man
09/23where are you going to go from there? why didn't you just go straight into your phd?
i'm trying to figure out what i want to do. i just got my ba and i had assumed through my undergrad that i wanted to do pure cult anthro academia all the way. but i'm starting to think i want to do something more applied, and not sure how best to tailor my education to take advantage of opportunities in that direction. a masters seems to be a better choice than getting locked into an 8 year program at 23. and then a phd later, possibly not in anthro. -
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Re: burning man
09/23ha, I saw your message well before I saw this post, so I'll give the short version to the tribe...
Didn't know what I wanted to write a dissertation on and this is crucial for a good application to any school... so I paid money to get my MA in one year. Now I've decided I'm too lazy to be fully in academics (not mentally, and not really, but I just don't want to wait until I'm 32 or so to start a career...)
So I'm going to try to get into Library School - and spend 2 years getting a second MA degree so that I can be a university-level academic librarian speciallizing in anthropology. -
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Re: burning man
09/23that's about where i'm at too. i mean i have a lot of ideas about what i want to study. but i feel like it would be rather arbitrary to just pick one and say THIS, THIS will be my lifes work. you know?
and yeah i definately don't have a strong enough background in theory to have a good conversation with a really anal professor. undergrad really doesn't prepare you for that imho. at least not my undergrad. not that i couldn't just do the reading now.
but it's all complicated by me just rethinking the whole thing. when you go through 8 years of anthro grad school you come out at the end with basically only one job opportunity. and even that doesn't pay very well. and you have to wait another 7 years to even be up for tenure. and if you don't get it you're fucked.
doesn't seem to smart for me. i just want to be able to think for a living. and travel for a living. and at some point, not necessarily right away, make a decent amount of money. so i'm thinking international relations, development, ngos, think tank stuff. but i don't know.
i'm not sure how to tailor my education at this point to do something like that.
my mom is suggesting an masters in organizational development or something because it's applied social science, very marketable, and applicable to things other than big corporations. like ngos.
but i don't know. i'm so confused! and i really don't have enough information...
the getting the free ma from three years in an anthro phd program sounds like it makes some kind of sense. though if i get an ma that actually allows me to make some money the cost isn't necessarily a bad thing. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.what's the usefulness of a master's degree, of a phd, of money? why are these distinctions desirable? how are they going to affect us in the future? what do you want the money for?
i guess i'm asking these questions for a variety of reasons -- i graduated with a b.a. in anthropology did my thesis on an emerging evolved human consciousness, an ecocentric model, made physically manifest in the form of ecovillages, i focused on three of them where i had done participant-observation fieldwork -- and maybe school's just not for me, or maybe i'm just *really* involved with the ecocentric experience, but i have little enthusiasm for continuing in traditionally suggested higher education programs only to get some more degrees that further separate me - at least nominally - from the interconnected egalitarian anarchist-but-thoughtfully-created bioregional settings i envision the future of our planet to need, the future of life in this universe to need. i do acknowledge the communicative opportunities that those educational distinctions allow inside a commonly accepted structure, but i wonder if it's time to break free, to create our own ways...i understand - since i've read through both your posts related to burning man - that you want to think & travel in your life, and acquire money - does that translate to accessibility of other desired resources like food, quality of life, etc? -, but i wonder if you couldnt do that on your own, do studies in your own ways, using your heart/intuition/high mental capacities as guides, following an inner knowing/truth, that will allow for you to live the life you deeply desire rather than one close enough but not fully there because of its relationship with a structure previously set out for you...couldnt you become some kind of independent knowledge holder & sharer, a traveling researcher and teacher, what intentions do you have in the craetion of who you want to become? how do those relate to all of humanity, to all existing life?
i'd love to hear other folks comments, i'm just wandering through ideas, but also recognize that i've found a place in myself that is open enough to sincerely part from the constructed reality and begin to create one that is most resonant with my intuitive sense, i mean, why not try, eh?
love&blessings be*you*to*full beings!
*kay'a*
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Re: burning man
09/24I'm definetely going to learn more on the "Temporary Auronomous Zones" (hyperlinks?). I have a friend who spent the summer travelling from festival to festival across Canada throug the summer, who came out with the idea of Festival City, an interconnected space that exists online, in temporary festival communities, and as a full-time real-space sub-culture.
In my opinion, the biggest thing that seperates Burning Man from any other community or culutre I've experienced is the lack of social taboos and barriers. If the inclination hits you, feel welcome to run around squawking like a chicken, with or without costume. Some people will stare, some people may join, lots of people will walk by. You will not lose friends, no one will demand a reason, neighbours will not dismiss and reject you.
It is liberty in a way that is more important than the legal freedoms (nudity, drugs, etc.).
A master's on the burn. Who knew academia could be so fun? -
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Re: burning man
09/24
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Re: burning man
09/24Oh, and YES academia can be as fun as you make it...that's why I'm writing a PhD on jungle/drum'n'bass. ;-)
Storm the halls...down with the fogies...the future is up to US. -
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Re: burning man
02/22heh, did you say that in your personal statement?
"I'm writing a PhD on jungle/drum'n'bass. ;-) "
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Re: burning man
01/30yawn.
I am glad that discovery channel made a documentary at the last burningman because most of the burner generated explinations are pretty slanted and full of drug joy. -
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Re: burning man
02/21Yeah, I could kind of get with that. The big deal isn't some little TAZ in the desert as it is what you do the other 51 weeks of your life. Too much obsession making too little a difference in the real world.
The thing that does strike me is the incredible lack of norms and values, with those that do exist being built from an ideological perspective. In a world where looking the wrong way at someone on the subway can cause alarming awkwardness, it is a grand thing to be in a place where running around in a tutu flapping your arms like a chicken while yodelling won't take away your standing within the community. Some people might watch, some might heckle, and others may walk away to find something more interesting, but you won't be shunned, or locked up for doing it.
That's exceptional, and important, even if temporary. So enjoy your documentary, lets hope it can get the viewers back home to realize (just like Malcom in the Middle's mon did) that everyone one of us is an artist, and being a little crazy, making art can be fun. -
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Re: burning man
02/22well, that IS a norm and value. and it's what keeps the society functioning. in a similar way that other norms and values keep other societies functioning. regulating interaction and all. i doubt having just the one norm and value would work for a society that had to live together 365 days of the year from birth to death.
"you won't be shunned, or locked up for doing it. "
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Re: burning man
02/22slanted explanations in cultural anthropology? noooooo
"I am glad that discovery channel made a documentary at the last burningman because most of the burner generated explinations are pretty slanted and full of drug joy. " -
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Re: burning man
02/22" slanted explanations in cultural anthropology? noooooo "
I am shocked to my core that you would suggest that opinions and bias could ever find their way into cultural anthropology! harumph! -
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Re: burning man
02/23i know! i may commit ritual suicide in a fit of objective indignation!
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